Questions about mage

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    Silentblow
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    Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:46 am

    So, I'm going into magic because I'm taking a break from training support shot. (Killing zombies in Their method w/ support shot =/= my idea of a fun game deskface )

    I read the comments in "Raising a Mage?" started by Bann. So far, I got that I should rank magic mastery, meditation, composing, and music knowledge. Finally, not some life skill that I only rank for dex! :P I'm probably going to rank Playing instrument to go w/ these two life skills xD.

    But, I'm still confused magic skill-wise. Do I really need to rank the bolt spells to around r5? Int magics, specifically Ice Spear, are the reason that I want to go into magic.

    If it is recommended to rank the bolt spells, should I rank them all at the same time? or only icebolt until r5 then start on lightning bolt? When should I rank firebolt and fusion bolt, do I rank them after I finish icebolt? Yutakaa mentioned decent int and mana, by decent, approximately how much int/mana should I have?

    And, when should I start on int magic? Personally, I want to rank ice spear first since I'm an elf, but is it better if I rank thunder first?

    Lastly, regarding wands, should I just get a trinity? or should I get ice/fire/lightning wand?

    Sorry for all the questions >_> and thanks in advance for all that read through this and much appreciation for those that answered.
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    Chiyuri

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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:38 am

    I recomand you raise a Witch instead. Mari has too many mages already.
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    Geluberserk
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Geluberserk on Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:32 am

    It depends Silent, do you want to full-blown mage, or just be a hybrid of the two? (archery/mage)
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    Silentblow
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:54 pm

    @Chiyuri, Witch as in a girl rather than a guy? Um, I don't plan to switch my gender so yea.....

    @Tow, if I want to be able to survive just on magic, but will use range from time to time, would I be considered a full-blown or a hybrid?
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    Chiyuri

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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:37 pm

    Silentblow wrote:@Chiyuri, Witch as in a girl rather than a guy? Um, I don't plan to switch my gender so yea.....

    @Tow, if I want to be able to survive just on magic, but will use range from time to time, would I be considered a full-blown or a hybrid?

    I guess for a guy, the right word for the class would be Sorcerer then.
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    Beefie
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Beefie on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:06 pm

    ur sooooooooooooooooooooo close to the sniper title thou pop.
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    Silentblow
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:25 pm

    @Chiyuri, lol, ok, I'll be a "sorcerer" than, as long as I get to use int magic

    @Beefie, I know >_< soooo close, yet not quite.

    But I'm afraid that I'd lose all motivation to train if I just power through support shot, so I figure I'll rank it passively atm
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    Geluberserk
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Geluberserk on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:27 pm

    You'd be a hybrid, if you wanted to consistantly use both.
    If its like that, just get the int magics, and maybe 1/2 bolts. Magic mastery is a good choice too. Eitherway, I'd probably get the sniper title, before going into magic :P
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    Chiyuri

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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:11 pm

    Silentblow wrote:@Chiyuri, lol, ok, I'll be a "sorcerer" than, as long as I get to use int magic

    @Beefie, I know >_< soooo close, yet not quite.

    But I'm afraid that I'd lose all motivation to train if I just power through support shot, so I figure I'll rank it passively atm

    Goodluck, unlike magehood, the path to Witch/Sorcererhood is much more difficult.
    In mari there is only 2 known Witch in a sea of so many mages.
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    Silentblow
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:36 pm

    @Tow, maybe, already started on music knowledge though.

    @Chiyuri, wait, want to tell me the difference between sorcerer and mage? o_O
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    Geluberserk
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Geluberserk on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:00 pm

    Silentblow wrote:@Tow, maybe, already started on music knowledge though.

    @Chiyuri, wait, want to tell me the difference between sorcerer and mage? o_O

    I dunno man, you're throwing away beefie potential man.
    There's no actual sorcerer "class" or skills. It's like a title you give to yourself I guess. It's just mage.
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    Silentblow
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:31 pm

    Going to be (beefie + chili)/4? ;D
    But yea, I'll still work on range, just passively training it.

    Oh, what distinguishes a "sorcerer" from the mages?
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Geluberserk on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:43 am

    Silentblow wrote:Going to be (beefie + chili)/4? ;D
    But yea, I'll still work on range, just passively training it.

    Oh, what distinguishes a "sorcerer" from the mages?
    There's nothing that distinguishes the two. Its like what you consider being a sorcerer or whatever. It's a self-given role.
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:00 pm

    To make it simple, the term "witchhood" in mabinogi came into existance because of the nexon and mabination forums.

    In those forums, whenver you mention a "Mage", people think "Mana pot addict/drinker". People of the Witch/Sorcerer class do not rely on mana potions to fight. They are Self-Mana Suffisant. Because of how people link "mage" to mana potions, a new term came into existance to different those who use magic via mana potions and those who only use magic and are self-Mana Suffisant. The Witch class.

    The main difference inbetwe Mages and Witchs are that mages focus on power while Witchs focus on mana preservation.
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    Sasegen
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Sasegen on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:40 pm

    @Chiyuri

    I think you're getting a little too much into the game...

    @Everyone else
    While magic users (I'm not gonna bother getting into some stupid argument about magic terminology) should definitely be self-mana sufficient, don't forget that magic is ultimately weaker than melee.

    Why?

    Because devCAT is retarded when it came to "balancing the styles of combat."

    Though if you insist on learning magic to a certain degree, I suppose it really depends on how far you want to commit.

    Mage is pretty much any point before you get r1 magic mastery + (element of your choice) mastery.

    If you want to be too serious about the game and start using terms like 'sorcerer' and 'witch', then you'd have to also own an assortment of tools (staves, wands) and obviously the skills to support that. Meditation is an obvious requirement. Wands can be pretty useful if you don't want to take the time to charge your staff (Fire especially, that takes too long to charge in comparison to others).

    Using magic is fairly simple, but considering Mabi's fighting system, it's hardly high-quality fighting. With Chapter 4's implementations, magic probably got stronger overall, but it's much harder to start a path of magic.

    Besides, my biggest issue with magic so far is this.

    Why is it that a committed melee specialist can deal a much greater deal of damage in 1.5 seconds (assuming no delay between loading skills and execution) with Smash compared to a committed magic user who has to charge Int magic for a minimum of 5 seconds (depending on which magic you're using) to achieve the same result? If anything, I'd be okay if they were on equal terms, but they're not. Constant Smashing can deal much more damage compared to most magic (Hailstorm being the only exception) in 30 seconds as opposed to other magic.

    I don't want to raise a debate in a topic about someone who wants to pursue magic, but just think about it for a while.

    Edit: Besides the fact that I play other games and Nexon fails at keeping their games well maintained, it's this particular imbalance where I view magic to be inferior to other fields of combat. As someone who loves magic greatly, this disappoints me so much I just can't stand playing anymore.
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    Chiyuri

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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:12 pm

    I'm not sure it's alright to make Hailstorm (the current only advance magic) which is pretty much an end-game skill the exception in magic when comparing magic to end-game melee.

    On a side note, within 36 seconds, my max damage I could do using magic is around 98k total.
    14k crits, 7 times in a row Hailstorm rampage ^^
    I had Rosemary gloves on through.
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    Beefie
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Beefie on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:41 pm

    hailstorm gives dex too xD. which is why i'm r1. xD Hailstorm is very strong, but still I would encourage pop to say range because elven range is a hell of alot more dmg per second.
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    Chiyuri

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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:06 pm

    Beefie wrote:hailstorm gives dex too xD. which is why i'm r1. xD Hailstorm is very strong, but still I would encourage pop to say range because elven range is a hell of alot more dmg per second.

    Under the best circonstances, how much damage per second would range be?
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    Geluberserk
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Geluberserk on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:57 pm

    I respectfully disagree. I personally think everything is situational. A fireball can completely clear out an elite room where a melee would have a hard time doing so.
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    Beefie
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Beefie on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:00 pm

    mag spam, i normally hit 2.5k-3k(nontrans and non crit). thats 90k to 108k in that 36sec time frame (no crit added). say u crit 30% the time, thats 139.5k to 157.5k dmg in 36seconds. So an end game elf could prolly hit well over 300k while trans and using finalshot in that time.
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    Beefie
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Beefie on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:13 pm

    Geluberserk wrote:I respectfully disagree. I personally think everything is situational. A fireball can completely clear out an elite room where a melee would have a hard time doing so.


    talking about hailstorm xP. atleast hailstorm and range r both spammable, fireball isnt.
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Chiyuri on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:30 pm

    On a side note, my witch isn't end-game yet ^^;
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    Beefie
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Beefie on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:11 am

    meh, either way all end game skills are OPed...... So yea.... watch this awesome gif

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    Sasegen
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Sasegen on Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:27 am

    @Chiyuri
    I made Hailstorm an exception because devCAT made the brilliant move to make it more broken than end-game Smash and other melee abilities. End-game Hailstorm DPS outstrips end-game melee DPS completely, but nothing else before Hailstorm does. So why did it take 8 years for devCAT to realize this and actually make an ability that goes against Mabi's traditional 'melee > magic'?

    @Gelu
    This is true, but if you were given the time to cast Fireball, then it would work. In the same amount of time, a melee person could potentially take out the entire room before the Fireball is launched. Technically you can cheat by giving yourself the time to charge Fireball prior to opening the chest (and spawning the monsters), or charge it from a longer distance.

    Granted that using magic, especially Int-level and above, grants you some perks that melee doesn't. But even with these kinds of other special effects, it's all for nothing when you start dealing with enemies who resist your attacks with PDs, and in those cases, melee is almost always a better option.

    Edit:
    @Beefie
    Yes. Basically any end-game skills are OP once you use combinations of skills (mastery, stat boosts, r1 offensive skill, etc.). It's also this reason why I hate Mabi's PvP system. It's not even a fight, it's rock-paper-scissors with attack moves that kill you in one hit.

    (branching off)
    I'd rather start a World of Warcraft account as opposed to playing Mabi's PvP. It's just ridiculous how they think that just because MMOs typically have PvP, Mabi's a type of game where PvP would work. This is completely false, and I'm afraid to say that if anyone really supports Mabi PvP, you guys are stupid. If it's for fun, then fine do whatever you want. But if you're going so far to say things like "Mabi PvP > WoW PvP", you've got the sense of a 12-year old who enjoys meaningless things. (I apologize if I'm being overly aggressive or offensive about this, but I mean it)

    Of course, if you're talking to me, I'd be Star Wars TOR PvP > all other PvP (in MMOs)... and I don't like its high-level PvP much, but I'd still deal with it (yay most under-geared character in the zones!).

    2nd Edit:
    I should point out: technically there's no real "end-game" things here when you're talking strictly levels. Considering the system of rebirths to constantly have your characters improve, the only end-game you can really consider is if your skills are at or close to rank 1 or not. That's it. And that's dependent on what skills you're investing in and how committed you are to your character's development.

    Absolutely nothing like TOR's end-game development. At least end-game content exists. Mabi's end-game content is nothing but grinding.
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    Re: Questions about mage

    Post by Silentblow on Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:27 am

    I like how I was asking for some advice, and this seems to turn into a debate about the "classes."

    Anyways, I don't think melee > magic is true, it depends on the player. The thing I love about int magic, specifically ice spear, is the crowd control and the aoe rather than the damage while the damage is a nice addition. And, if I want to go into melee, I would start off as a giant rather than an elf. Melee is strong, but there is no specific melee skill that I want, until martial arts skills are implanted at least, which is why I'm not going into melee.

    As for PD, PDs come in three kinds, so if you say that magic is useless against mana deflector, isn't that the same thing saying that melee doesn't work well with monsters with heavy stander? Each class has its strength and weakness, you can't just say one class is better than another. Or else, elf w/ high rank meditation would > all since you just have to hide and do pet revolver (not even class but beats all classes). And I never seen anyone doing so hot w/ melee skills on hot air balloon and rafting. Does that make melee < magic and range since obviously you can't do anything except to the 2~3 hoblins jumping onto the raft?

    Just saying, but hopefully this thread can go back on what skills I should rank and what rank should the skills be.

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